Saturday, December 02, 2006

[academicsecret] 12/02/2006 02:59:44 PM

I thought of that, too, TS. I don't think that my nameplate is very salient in the whole office door scheme of things, particularly when the door is open.

He never calls me by my name, only the girl from Timbuktoo. So I assume he thinks since he knows about me, my childhood, and my hometown, he gets to forget my name. I disagree.

So while I'm not positive, I'm pretty sure.

Salmon: I hate it when students don't know the names of professors or TAs. Your advisor's idea is great.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 12/02/2006 02:59:44 PM

Friday, December 01, 2006

[academicsecret] 12/02/2006 04:31:27 AM

The professor for whom I TA gives pop quizzes in class. He makes students put the name of their lab instructor at the top of their quizzes, and if they don't know, they get a max of 80%. I told all my students they better remember my name for that reason alone, ha.

I'm seriously bad with names, and I was actually pretty stressed about the idea of teaching because I was worried about not being able to learn all the students' names (and on top of that, I have this problem that once I get it in my head that someone 'looks' like a certain name, I continue to call the person that name even if that isn't said person's name). But I can seriously not imagine not knowing a faculty member's name--ESPECIALLY if I were faculty myself!! That is ridiculous.

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 12/02/2006 04:31:27 AM

[academicsecret] 12/01/2006 04:07:03 PM

My God, Strawberries! How big is your department?

Earlier this year I had an experience similar to anonymous. It was a few months into the semester and there was a reception of sorts for grad students and faculty and I was standing talking to two senior males from my department when a third senior male walked up to the conversation and started it by asking if it was my first, or my second, year of grad school. Luckily I didn't have to say a word because the other two stepped in.

What makes it so sad is that these "little" interactions actually speak volumes, yet they're so often overlooked or thought of as unimportant.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 12/01/2006 04:07:03 PM

[academicsecret] 12/01/2006 01:18:00 PM

wow. i was preparing a post in my head about this same thing.

and the person is in the same position as me. though he is a he, so that may have something to do it it.

and he asked for my name in a situation where he was introducing me to someone. he also called me girl.

i called him a few things as well, in my head though.

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 12/01/2006 01:18:00 PM

Thursday, November 30, 2006

[academicsecret] 12/01/2006 12:40:42 AM

I don't understand how people can't have even the curiosity to learn who the new folks are. Much harder when you're new and trying to learn many old guard names and faces.

It was half-way through my second year that a senior faculty member asked me, in front of one of the secretaries, who my major professor is. The secretary laughed and laughed, pointing out that "Dr. Youngun is faculty." Ugh! All that time he assumed I was just a grad student who hangs around a lot.

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 12/01/2006 12:40:42 AM

Monday, November 27, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/28/2006 12:00:20 AM

Wisteria is taken now, so it might be a little redundant to have a Wisteria monocytogenes. Too bad! Salmon needs a little pal.

Orange Ina--I don't know if I registered before or after you, either, but I also like Orangina and considered that name, too! Great minds... :)

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 11/28/2006 12:00:20 AM

[academicsecret] 11/27/2006 04:26:36 PM

I wonder if he or she knows. I think back to all the lame things I did as I was going through the professionalization process and it's really, really scary.

Can you tell if the author is a new or seasoned grad student? Is it themselves that they're referring to as professor, or is that just how they write instead of saying "Fraud asserts...," they're saying, "Professor Fraud asserts..."? Myabe the author didn't do enough homework to realize the author of the work he or she is citing is still a grad student?

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 11/27/2006 04:26:36 PM

[academicsecret] 11/27/2006 10:54:57 AM

is the person from outside the US? because in different systems/countries the titles assigned to ppl based on education are often different than ours.

that is the only possible reason i can think of. and yah, that is pretty dumb.

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 11/27/2006 10:54:57 AM

Saturday, November 25, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/26/2006 02:43:54 AM

Sorry to post now on such a recent (and end-of-semester) entry, but I had an amusing experience that might give you some perspective.

I had a similar group of back-of-the-room gigglers. Beyond the giggling, I liked these students, and I was fairly certain that they were enjoying the class and learning from it. Several times I evil-eyed them, and several times I stopped the class to ask them if they wanted to share. None of these tricks stopped the giggles.

A month after class ended, I had a beer with one of the students (not too professional, maybe, but wtf). She told me that the source of the giggles was the regular appearance of the ass crack of a student who sat in front of them (brutally unprofessional, I know). The giggles were half amusement (apparently there were a plethora of text messages that went back and forth on the topic of the crack) and half anxiety ("Should we tell her about it? It's not exactly the same as tucking in her the tag that's hanging out of the back of her shirt..."). Nothing to do with me. Rude, yes, but very human, I think.

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Posted by Lucid Peacock to academicsecret at 11/26/2006 02:43:54 AM

[academicsecret] 11/25/2006 07:42:07 PM

Strawberries makes a very interesting point. We are probably wrong in assuming that every student is aiming for an A. (Or is it really patronizing to suggest that not every student is aiming for an A??)

If the student is otherwise preoccupied and simply wants to get by, and who knows, maybe enjoys your style of teaching and/or the topic then why not take another class? Again, without knowing more about what he does that is annoying, it's hard to say whether these could be the reasons. But perhaps compared to all other possible courses/profs, you are still by far among the preferred lot.

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Posted by Navy Blue Blob to academicsecret at 11/25/2006 07:42:07 PM

[academicsecret] 11/25/2006 07:31:37 PM

thanks for sharing, everyone! your stories are very interesting :o)

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 11/25/2006 07:31:37 PM

[academicsecret] 11/25/2006 07:30:37 PM

ooh, sorry about annoying kid coming back. i think there are some students who are ok with doing bad. or are at least used to it. doesn't make it easier though...

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 11/25/2006 07:30:37 PM

Friday, November 24, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/25/2006 06:38:44 AM

My name is a bit like Salmon Ella's. It makes sense when read together, but also makes sense separately. I can't remember if I registered before Salmon or after. If I registered after then perhaps her name inspired my name. Otherwise, I'm just not sure anymore. Oh, and I happen to like the drink.:)

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Posted by Orange Ina to academicsecret at 11/25/2006 06:38:44 AM

[academicsecret] 11/25/2006 06:35:28 AM

Any chance of asking him directly what he is hoping to get out of another course with you? Or would that be problematic? (I really don't know. I've never been faced with such a situation, but if I were to be in this situation, I'd want to know.)

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Posted by Orange Ina to academicsecret at 11/25/2006 06:35:28 AM

Thursday, November 23, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/23/2006 08:48:11 PM

I think it's really not so much this student, but what he symbolizes. I wanted a fresh start, particularly from this class that he's currently enrolled in and I'm bummed that I won't have that fresh start.

I'm getting used to the idea, though, and hope I'm just pleasantly surprised and that I'm still able to really enjoy this coming semester so much more than this past one.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 11/23/2006 08:48:11 PM

[academicsecret] 11/23/2006 08:43:29 AM

Gosh, sorry to hear about this! I can see why this would be an issue generally speaking, but I don't fully follow the level of negativety in your comment. Does he disrupt class? Is he disrespectful? In what way does his mere presence constitute a problem? I'm not questioning your negative reaction, I'm just wondering what exactly underlies it.

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Posted by Navy Blue Blob to academicsecret at 11/23/2006 08:43:29 AM

[academicsecret] 11/23/2006 08:40:21 AM

Could you shorten it to Wysteria Monocyt?

As for me, I just like blue so I picked it. I also like the word blob, although I really can't explain why. I'm also not sure why I didn't simply go with Blue Blob and why I had to specify that it's Navy Blue Blob. Perhaps because I didn't want to be mistaken for another type of blue, like powder blue or some such thing. Plus I suspect this was on the Crayola list. (Wait, is there such a thing as powder blue? I meant the light version.)

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Posted by Navy Blue Blob to academicsecret at 11/23/2006 08:40:21 AM

[academicsecret] 11/23/2006 08:36:38 AM

Dr. Kirk, yes, I think there are definitely some fields that have yielded more blogs than others. I don't know how it looks from field-to-field, but my impression is that there are a ton of law prof blogs. You are commenting about a b-school blog. I wonder if professional schools see more of a link/relevance.

It would be interesting to know what fields are represented here on a.secret, but it's unlikely people will post that given the already high levels of paranoia about being found out.

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Posted by Navy Blue Blob to academicsecret at 11/23/2006 08:36:38 AM

Wednesday, November 22, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/23/2006 05:21:59 AM

Wisteria monocytogenes is an awesome name! It is a pity it's so long, or I'd be tempted to steal it :)

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Posted by Dandelion to academicsecret at 11/23/2006 05:21:59 AM

[academicsecret] 11/22/2006 10:17:29 PM

There is no deep explanation for my name. I wanted something that reflects my academic interests (kind of, anyway) and I also wanted something that was a play on words. Salmon Ella was one of the first things I thought of. I figured Wisteria monocytogenes was too long, ha ha.

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 11/22/2006 10:17:29 PM

[academicsecret] 11/22/2006 07:18:43 PM

I actually spent a dorkily long time thinking about what colors I liked, and what colors had cool names, and where they would fit in the list of colors in the sidebar and whether they'd clash with their alphabetical neighbors. And then I found this icon and had to pick Dandelion.
Yellow makes me happy, though. It's so nice and sunny.

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Posted by Dandelion to academicsecret at 11/22/2006 07:18:43 PM

[academicsecret] 11/22/2006 06:15:15 PM

Nice post, Strawberries, thanks!

I, too, don't think I have anything as eloquent and well thought-out, even in retrospect.

Like you, Strawberries, I picked the color based on preference. I like turquoise. Of course, turquoise can be lots of different colors, so to illustrate what version I like, I created my little icon.

Regarding "stuff", I chose it precisely because it is so vague and general. I figured whatever I picked, my interests and preferences would change over time so it was good to go with something relatively all-encompassing.

I don't know, could the fact that I'm a pack-rat have influeced that choice?:)

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Posted by Turquoise Stuff to academicsecret at 11/22/2006 06:15:15 PM

Tuesday, November 21, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/21/2006 10:55:52 PM

I wish I had something as eloquent to write about my name.

I came here and posted whispers as fraud. Later, when I was invited to join as a regular poster, I had to choose a color but wasn't quite ready to let go of that fraud-quality so I had to think of a way to add some color to it.

I thought about on golden fraud, but I'm not all that golden. fraud, in denim made sense because I wear jeans whenever possible, but also because I was feeling a little blue.

It works because some days I feel more fraudulent, some days more blue, and some days more comfortable, like a worn pair of denim jeans.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 11/21/2006 10:55:52 PM

Monday, November 20, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/20/2006 10:57:52 PM

None of my colleagues have a blog and think I am strange to spend time writing on one. I wonder if blogwriting is more common among some academic areas (I'm in a Business College). Any thoughts on that?

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Posted by Dr. Delaney Kirk to academicsecret at 11/20/2006 10:57:52 PM

[academicsecret] 11/20/2006 06:04:46 PM

I can think of lots of things that make sense. I'm in a really small department at a mapus with really meagre facilities. If a faculty person has insufficient knowledge to help a student with a research topic (not a problem as much when the library has the resources), then the student will have to find a different topic or work with someone who does.

And frankly, I know one student who is desperate to do a thesis on Oranges. Except Oranges is the student's personal hobbyhorse, and the student has Ideas about it. Every conversation with the student says that the student cannot get past preconceived notions about what the thesis will show in order to ask questions or better, to let the documentary evidence lead the way for the thesis research. Telling the student to do a subject that is more in line with what the person teaching the thesis seminar (not me) and that can be supported and that will allow the student to be objective are all good reasons to nix a topic.

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Posted by Another Damned Medievalist to academicsecret at 11/20/2006 06:04:46 PM

Saturday, November 18, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/19/2006 12:54:26 AM

I was one of the people inviting folks on here and even I am clueless for the most part when it comes to various identities. So I highly doubt that random people stumbling on this blog will know much.

But I understand. I get paranoid, too. Of course, freedom to comment here may be related to how free (or not) you are to discuss relevant (to this blog) issues with people in your environment. If you're not - which may make you the most needy of such an outlet - then you shouldn't be too concerned that things you mention here will resonate too much with those around you, no?

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Posted by Plaid to academicsecret at 11/19/2006 12:54:26 AM

Thursday, November 16, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/17/2006 01:34:21 AM

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think there is an interesting social networks effect where several members of a department might be intrigued all at once by blogs--say, for instance, if a particular post gets e-mailed around--and maybe even a new person or two will start a blog, but trends toward dissipation can lead all that to be over fairly quickly.

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Posted by Clear to academicsecret at 11/17/2006 01:34:21 AM

[academicsecret] 11/16/2006 07:56:30 PM

I feel it. I've already been recognized, so it's quite possible! And I'm pretty sure that if my advisor were to stumble across this site, he'd know who I was. Heck, maybe he already has...

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 11/16/2006 07:56:30 PM

[academicsecret] 11/16/2006 07:20:02 PM

I'm glad that you're enjoying yourself here, anonymous. You know, your free to join at any time, just email Clear or Plaid. Your "bimbo" fear is much like where my name originates from.

I don't think that any of us says enough here that we could be tracked down by a reader with a keen eye coupled with a worthy search engine. I am more afraid that someone will stumble on the blog and read my words, or experiences and "know" that it's me. I talk a lot in my not-secret life and I write much like I talk and I just don't want anyone to catch on. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

I do stop myself from posting funny stories here, for fear that I'll be discovered because I'll tell them to someone else. I wish I didn't have to do that.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 11/16/2006 07:20:02 PM

[academicsecret] 11/16/2006 06:45:12 PM

I've been reading/observing this blog for some time now and I've been coming back to it because a) I find it enjoyable; b) as a graduate student myself I find this environment comforting and familiar.
So forgive me if I'm crossing some line now but it seems to me that the worry that your secret identities might be revealed is preventing the blog from developing in its full potential. (This is a recurrent worry is it not?)

Perhaps I should put this in the form of a `paradox': Assume: purpose of anonymous blogging is freedom of expression. But if one were to express oneself freely then one's identity would be revealed. Therefore, one must not express oneself freely when blogging.

I am trying to say that you have a dilemma---either keep the content of posts generic enough to be un--traceable; or say what you want to say (within reasonable limits of course) and risk, erm, `exposure'.

So perhaps you could ask yourselves:
How realistic is it to expect that what you say here could be traced back to your person?
If what you say does get traced back what would the consequences be?
Is the combination of (risk of exposure) plus (undesirable consequences) significant enough to warrant caution in what gets said?
If so, what would this mean for the blog? Is it worthwhile to have it, will its purpose have to be re--evaluated, etc?

I guess because I may come off as pedantic I could give you a secret to redeem myself (for what it's worth). I have a recurrent fear that my colleagues think I'm a bimbo. One of my fears is that one day `they' will realise that I'm not supposed to be here (or they have realised already but haven't been able to get rid of me yet).

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 11/16/2006 06:45:12 PM

Wednesday, November 15, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/16/2006 06:39:13 AM

Related, but with some aspects tweaked a bit. I've always wanted to be on the academic track and sort of assumed that that was all my advisors in grad school would want to hear. For me, it was not pretending to say so. However, I felt badly for friends who felt like they couldn't be up front about this.

Now that I'm on the other side I see this differently and have also since realized that my advisors could support other paths as well.

First, you want your students to be happy. It's pointless to get people in this field (or in your case in a location) if they're going to be miserable. We're talking about people's lives here, after all.

Second, I have personally also realized that just because people leave academia (or in your case decide to focus on teaching) doesn't mean that they have failed us (that being academics or research or whatever). It just means that they will be making important contributions elsewhere.

The question is whether you can assume your mentors to be reasonable in that way. Fortunately, their recommendations may be less important for non-academic positions (or possibly teaching jobs as well) so hopefully even if they can't be supportive it won't be to your preferred career's detriment.

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Posted by Turquoise Stuff to academicsecret at 11/16/2006 06:39:13 AM

[academicsecret] 11/16/2006 01:10:28 AM

Thanks everyone, so much, for your thoughts and stories. It's good to know I'm not alone, and to be reminded of the options I have!

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Posted by Poppy Red to academicsecret at 11/16/2006 01:10:28 AM

Tuesday, November 14, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/14/2006 11:49:30 PM

I don't know about you, Poppy, but I got my PhD for flexibility, and went into academia for that reason (although to support my role as a mother). I knew I could get a job teaching someplace - whether it was an R1 or a community college - and be doing what I loved.

I'm sure that you went in with some purpose of your own and that doesn't have to be to get a stellar job somewhere, but the job that's right for you. A grad student career doesn't have to end with a job in a far-away place, or an academic job at all, and that's okay.

In my grad program we had a number of adjuncts who stayed at the school for personal reasons (usually centered around family) and while they didn't get paid as well and had little job security, I don't think that any of them would have chosen a different path given the chance, or that anyone looked down on them for making a decision like that.

You know, my partner turned down some big-time jobs to land at the same school as me and email after email from the schools he turned down applauded him for his commitment to his family and those that he loved.

Academics might seem cold and heartless, and they do want their students to grow up to be just like them, but they've all made decisions and (the vast majority at least) have people who they care about and are close to.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 11/14/2006 11:49:30 PM

[academicsecret] 11/14/2006 11:29:00 PM

I've moved three times in the past five years. I moved first for post doc 1 (city 1), which I hated...I fled months later to post doc 2 (city 2), which was fantastic and from which I got my dream job (city 3). By most measures, I've done well. I live in a great city, I have wonderful colleagues, I teach smart students, I do work that I love. Given that I've only been in my new "home" for a few months, I am quite well settled and have met lots of really lovely people. At the same time, I am staggered lately - now that I've "landed" - at the wear and tear caused by moving around so much, which has been hard both on my friendships and on what was my romantic relationship (honestly, it would've ended anyway, but that I chose to move certainly made the ending rather abrupt and emphatic). All my metaphors from this come from the plant world - I feel planted in soil that isn't sufficiently deep, I have rootshock, I'm worried the graft won't take, etc. (though I recognize that I've had agency in these decisions, I really do!) Anyway, all this to say, I want to affirm your sense that moving can be really difficult and that it can be entirely reasonable and rational to choose not to do it and/or to limit where you're willing to go. After all, it's your LIFE and that can never be only about work...

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Posted by twilight blue to academicsecret at 11/14/2006 11:29:00 PM

[academicsecret] 11/14/2006 07:41:22 PM

I'm in a kind of similar situation, mentally anyway. It's not so much that I have to stay in any one place for my partner's job, but at this point I can really not imagine uprooting the family to go around the country doing post-docs and then going anywhere that I can find a job. At the same time I know that's what it takes.

My department recently hired a new faculty member who is about my age and has a similar personal situation in that she has a husband and kid. At first I was thinking that I might spend a lot of time being jealous of her, seeing as how she's already in a position that I'm supposedly wanting to be in someday. However, I have found that I don't really don't admire her life too much, which has led me to seriously reconsider my career goals.

Like you, my major goal is financial independence (or at least knowing that I could be--the concept of independence kind of changes when you have a shared kid), and I can see myself being perfectly happy teaching in a variety of situations. At the same time I do wonder if one day I'll regret not trying to be all that I can be academically and professionally.

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 11/14/2006 07:41:22 PM

[academicsecret] 11/14/2006 12:43:10 PM

i don't want to have to go "anywhere" either. I hate certain parts of the country....

i hope that you can find something close by your partner though...

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 11/14/2006 12:43:10 PM

Saturday, November 11, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/11/2006 05:16:53 PM

FYI, I also read Blob as Bob often so I don't think that activity suggests any irregularity. Alternatively, I share said irregularity. Bob is not my actual name, by the way. But that's not surprising, I'm sure, given that this is a secret blog.

As for fields being similar, I had a good friend in grad school who was in a field that couldn't have been less like my own. Nonetheless, we shared lots of stories about our experiences and it was unbelievable how many things overlapped. So yes, I think academia in general has a lot of similarities regardless of your particular field.

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Posted by Navy Blue Blob to academicsecret at 11/11/2006 05:16:53 PM

Friday, November 10, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/09/2006 12:12:00 AM

Fraud, do you know who I am?! I have no idea who you are! But I guess we like similar colors perhaps.:-) I fear you might know who I am. Otherwise, how do you have a dream about someone you don't know at all?? Or did you mean to say you had a dream about who you think is NBB?

Regarding the blogs, I agree with you, the IR one seems somehow more mature. Then again, to be fair to the sociology group, the IR blog has been around longer (already last year, I think).

As for comparisons, yes, one could drive oneself crazy over this. In reality, the hiring process is not nearly rational enough for a CV comparison to give any hints about much, but that's hard for candidates to understand.

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Posted by Navy Blue Blob to academicsecret at 11/09/2006 12:12:00 AM

[academicsecret] 11/07/2006 07:48:00 PM

I agree with the others--you cannot allow this to continue as it will (is) affecting you and your teaching. You will get to the point where you hate going into that classroom which means your confidence will be lower which then affects your lecture and the rest of the students. I would split them up. Or stop every time they are laughing and say that you see them talking to each other and assume they have a question. They will get the point.

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Posted by Dr. Delaney Kirk to academicsecret at 11/07/2006 07:48:00 PM

Wednesday, November 08, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/08/2006 01:10:08 PM

Hi, NBB!

Can I tell you that I had a dream about you a few weeks back? I somehow found out that you knew where I lived and were on the hunt to find out who I was. It was much scarier than it should have been. If you know who I am, let's just keep that secret between us.

Now about your post. Wow! The information is amazing! That was something that I wished for when I was on the market - particularly some clue about who was hired where, or what searches were a lost cause, etc. I think that I actually like the names better. The sociologists sound so desperate and lost, but at least the IR folks have CVs they can look at to know "who" gets brought in to the top schools or who the hot shots are.

That said, I remember being on an interview last year and finding out who the three other candidates were while I was there (I'd had literally no idea) and I sent myself into a frenzy comparing myself to each of them.

I don't know. Maybe it's the pretty little table, but there's some semblence of order - and progress - on the IR page that I just don't see on the sociology blog or wiki.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 11/08/2006 01:10:08 PM

Monday, November 06, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/06/2006 01:26:45 PM

YOU are in charge of the classroom. If a student or students want to cause a problem, YOU resolve it.
My favorite tactic was to call on the problem children repeatedly in every session. They get the hint rather quickly when they're (as usual) unprepared, and you verbally flail their hides. If necessary, after a couple days of this treatment, a casual discussion with them after class can make their options crystal clear.
Alternatively, just pick the ringleader and make him/her into toxic waste by showing how unprepared and idiotic he/she is, then calling on anyone who shares chat with him/her that class.
Why tolerate disrespect?

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Posted by Shark to academicsecret at 11/06/2006 01:26:45 PM

[academicsecret] 11/06/2006 12:30:46 PM

yes, ignoring trolls, good plan!

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 11/06/2006 12:30:46 PM

Sunday, November 05, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/06/2006 04:17:21 AM

I am "officially" declaring these hostile Anon posts trolling behavior and suggest that no one engage with them.

I've been inspired by TS's ability to walk away from these.

[delete substantive response]

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Posted by Orange Ina to academicsecret at 11/06/2006 04:17:21 AM

[academicsecret] 11/06/2006 02:55:46 AM

It's like I'm back in pre-school reading the comments on this blog. What's wrong with you people? These comments really underscore what is wrong with academics these days. It appears that the cademics on this blog are careerists, not people that will say what they think. Thank God for academics like Ann Bartow, for example - someone that says what she thinks no matter what the cost. I only wish that there were mote Anns in the world!! see sivacracy.net.

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 11/06/2006 02:55:46 AM

[academicsecret] 11/06/2006 02:44:49 AM

Well, isn't it just a tiny bit ironic to be getting a lecture about being spineless from someone who is too scared to put his/her name on a comment on a blog? Yikes!

Of course you have to be careful about what you say to people! First, no one likes to have their feelings or egos hurt. And YES, it can come back and haunt you. I'm not even going to justify that stupid comment with anything more.

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Posted by Orange Ina to academicsecret at 11/06/2006 02:44:49 AM

[academicsecret] 11/06/2006 01:45:13 AM

Hey - I'm your advisor!!! Are you ever in trouble now! But thanks for correcting the spelling error. It was very helpful and much appreciated! Glad to see that you still have your fine eye for detail!

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 11/06/2006 01:45:13 AM

[academicsecret] 11/05/2006 10:36:15 PM

Grow a spine and speak up. With your current attitude, you will never amount to much or authentially live your life.

Thanks for the great amount of support, anonymous asshole, but I think I'm amounting to plenty and living my life 'authentially' (sic) enough. I think there's a difference between having a spine and being an abrasive and egotistical nitpicker.

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 11/05/2006 10:36:15 PM

[academicsecret] 11/05/2006 09:35:42 PM

I agree with what others have said.

I find that my advisor writes in a certain style that I can't combat with comments and when she asks for feedback, she wants to know if something's unclear, she missed something, a typo and anything that's not exactly comments about her "style."

Also, I've never felt like I was looked down on for suggesting something that she might have missed. I'm only further valued in those kinds of endeavors after something like that.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 11/05/2006 09:35:42 PM

[academicsecret] 11/05/2006 07:45:21 PM

Ignore the perceived class structure and say what you think. Why go through life scared of your own shadow? "Oh my! If I say what I really think it may come back to haunt me." Are you really that weak? Let the chips fall where they may. Grow a spine and speak up. With your current attitude, you will never amount to much or authentially live your life. If your advisor takes offense, why would you want the respect of such a person anyway?

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 11/05/2006 07:45:21 PM

[academicsecret] 11/05/2006 02:46:42 PM

I think that the larger problem is that the students doing this may not be shamed into silence by the evil eye or by being told that their behavior is rude.

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 11/05/2006 02:46:42 PM

Saturday, November 04, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/04/2006 11:25:54 PM

That's a great answer, Twilight, I should start doing that!

This is a tough one. Is generally hard, but I think there is the added component of status difference here.

For one thing, it's important to stay positive. Start with something positive. There's got to be something positive in there. Then if you have critical comments, be sure to focus on those as traits of the paper, not the author. Example: "I thought this section may be easier to understand if it included a description of x." as opposed to "You shouldn't have said this here, you should say y."

I think catching typos or grammatical errors is certainly helpful and you're right that it shows you read the paper. Regarding content, I would want to know whether my argument makes sense. I would want to know if the reader finds the evidence convincing and if the analyses are clear to follow and understand. I'd also definitely want to know if I missed some obvious related literature that I should be citing.

If you get this type of a request about a paper that has already been published and especially if it's from someone you don't know that well then I highly recommend staying positive. Also, I always find it poor form when a person has nothing else to say except that you forgot to cite the ten related pieces that they have written in the area.

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Posted by Orange Ina to academicsecret at 11/04/2006 11:25:54 PM

[academicsecret] 11/04/2006 11:19:04 PM

This is interesting. You raise a question, and I'll attempt a response, but I wanted to react to another part of this. WHAAA! It drives me crazy when I see tiny tiny projects that are not really projects. I hate it. After all the work I did on my dissertation (or even BA thesis), I'd like to see people doing at least half as much. Not that this is a hazing type of thing, but c'mon, I think we're awarding BAs and PhDs a bit too easily at times.

Okay, but to answer your question. This is a hard one. I do think it is very much an advisor's responsibility to discourage a student from a bad project. But I agree with you that some justification needs to be given. Otherwise, the student almost rightly can continue to be enthusiastic about his/her project assuming the prof just didn't get it.

I'd just try to explain that for xyz reasons where xyz could be a lack of theoretical contribution, triviality, something that's already been covered, something that's too hard, something that's empirically impossible or too hard at that stage, etc. the student shouldn't embark on the topic.

All that said, I would then work with the student to find something suitable. For one thing, I would ask what it is about x topic that attracted them to it and then see whether we can find another approach that still includes their core interest.

As to CW's comment, I considered a program where one of the few people who was suitable for PhD advising said to me: "Who cares about Apples?" where Apples stands for the topic that was absolutely dear to my heart and has constituted my entire career ever since. Needless to say, I didn't pursue my PhD in his program.

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Posted by Orange Ina to academicsecret at 11/04/2006 11:19:04 PM

[academicsecret] 11/04/2006 08:37:10 PM

When I am given a draft, whether by a colleague or a student, I try to remember to ask, "what kind of feedback are you looking for?" or "tell me how I can be most helpful to you here?" this might be harder to say to ones advisor...but, in general, life is so much less exhausting when I am not attempting to read people's minds (a bad habit of mine, to be sure)...

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Posted by twilight blue to academicsecret at 11/04/2006 08:37:10 PM

[academicsecret] 11/04/2006 08:14:08 PM

i am SO glad you are not working with prof. Y then. happy orange studying!

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 11/04/2006 08:14:08 PM

[academicsecret] 11/04/2006 08:12:02 PM

if i gave something to a grad student to read, or to anyone for that matter, it would mean that i valued their opinion, and thus, would want any sort of information possible. from their thoughts on the whole paper, to organization, to whats confusing, to whats not needed, to typos.

but this guy sounds like maybe he acts differently (based on your he revises everything). but you gave him a good response though!

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 11/04/2006 08:12:02 PM

[academicsecret] 11/04/2006 06:34:50 PM

Sorry I'm late to this conversation. What a really unfortunate situation, Apricot! I would hate it. And I woudn't have tolerated it this long. I like people's suggestions and hope to keep them in mind for future occurences that are, unfortunately, likely to happen.

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Posted by Turquoise Stuff to academicsecret at 11/04/2006 06:34:50 PM

[academicsecret] 11/04/2006 06:30:02 PM

Anon - great to hear that you feel safe here and find the place friendly, I do, too.

Nice to hear from others as well.

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Posted by Turquoise Stuff to academicsecret at 11/04/2006 06:30:02 PM

[academicsecret] 11/04/2006 09:56:46 AM

generally speaking, if my advisor sends me a preprint of his, it's more because he thinks i'd find it interesting or he wants to keep up grad student abreast of what else he's doing...

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 11/04/2006 09:56:46 AM

Friday, November 03, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/03/2006 11:41:13 PM

I'm still here, just ultra super duper busy!

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 11/03/2006 11:41:13 PM

[academicsecret] 11/03/2006 11:40:35 PM

Stand in front of them and give them the Evil Eye until they stop. The prof I TA for is a master at humiliating rude students in this manner.

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 11/03/2006 11:40:35 PM

[academicsecret] 11/03/2006 04:26:43 PM

When I interviewed at university X for grad school, I had an interview with professor Y, the head of the department. I told him I wanted to study something like Oranges. He said, "Now, I'm not telling you that Oranges are too difficult for you," and then told me how Oranges were too difficult for me. His own group researched Oranges!

Now I am happily studying Oranges at university Z.

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Posted by carolina wolverine to academicsecret at 11/03/2006 04:26:43 PM

[academicsecret] 11/03/2006 03:12:49 PM

Thanks, all. These are good suggestions!

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Posted by Apricot to academicsecret at 11/03/2006 03:12:49 PM

[academicsecret] 11/03/2006 01:42:01 PM

An alternative to kicking them out (though, I would support that, as well!) would be to make it verboten for them to sit together. I have taken to periodically rearranging my students' habitual seating patterns. Sometimes I do this by getting to class 5 minutes early and writing on the board, "today, you must sit in a different part of the room" or "make sure that when class begins you are sitting next to someone you do NOT already know" (I then have them introduce themselves and talk with that someone new for 5 minutes about the assigned reading). Other times, I've had them "count off" and then asked them to sit with their group (we then do a group exercise for part of class and I don't let them return to their original seats following). I was worried about such strategies, because they were so evocative of, um, kindergarten, but they've actually proven very helpful, both for breaking up cliques and for getting students who don't talk much in class to be more interactive.

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Posted by twilight blue to academicsecret at 11/03/2006 01:42:01 PM

Thursday, November 02, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/02/2006 10:02:39 PM

I'm still around! I'm kind of a lurker since I only comment anonymously. I have to say that fear of engaging with trolls is what keeps me from commenting on almost all the blogs I frequent. I got burned long, long ago on a listserv conversation (before chat rooms & blogs existed)and having people misunderstand my comments still scares me. But a.secret is the one place I will put up a comment - it feels safe & friendly here. So please don't go away!

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 11/02/2006 10:02:39 PM

[academicsecret] 11/02/2006 01:00:15 PM

I agree with Lime. I bet they are disrupting the students who have the misfortune of sitting near them.

i am a strong proponent of telling people to get out if they are rude. of course i have never had to or had the pleasure of doing it...

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 11/02/2006 01:00:15 PM

[academicsecret] 11/02/2006 09:07:33 PM

Can you move around the lecture hall? Because doing a Donahue and walking up and down the aisles can be a really effective way of shutting the gigglers up. If you spend a few minutes delivering the lecture standing right next to them for a few lectures in a row, I bet they simmer down. Especially if you go stand right next to them immediately following a giggling episode.

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Posted by thistle to academicsecret at 11/02/2006 09:07:33 PM

Wednesday, November 01, 2006

[academicsecret] 11/02/2006 02:00:51 AM

You march right up to them before class and tell them that they can leave if they don't care to listen quietly. How dare they act so rudely!

And after you warn them, if they continue, I think you should stop the whole class, ask them to leave, and then wait for them to do so.

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Posted by lime to academicsecret at 11/02/2006 02:00:51 AM

[academicsecret] 11/01/2006 09:42:27 PM

ps. this blog rocks, I hope you guys don't abandon it!

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Posted by JustMe to academicsecret at 11/01/2006 09:42:27 PM

[academicsecret] 11/01/2006 09:37:46 PM

i'm still here!
and glad that you walked away from the trolls! i never can manage to not get engaged and then end up angry.

my most recent a.secret? i have been hiding out from my visiting position and doing work at home. I am growing to not like these people.

all i'm gonna say is people at depts/universities who have janitors are quite fortunate.

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Posted by JustMe to academicsecret at 11/01/2006 09:37:46 PM

Tuesday, October 31, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/31/2006 03:29:02 PM

Yay, love geeky posts and sentiments of this sort! Partly, because in reality it's not that geeky at all and has real-world relevance. Thanks for pointing us to this.

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Posted by Orange Ina to academicsecret at 10/31/2006 03:29:02 PM

Monday, October 30, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/30/2006 12:51:43 PM

From an email I got this morning (only the italicized words are changed, and I teach at a top 20 university):

hey ms. anonymous,
i started writing my impression management essay and i was having some
difficulties trying to find examples from the sex and the city episode, so i was
wondering if you could give me some examples or explaine it in a new light.
thanks,
typical student


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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 10/30/2006 12:51:43 PM

[academicsecret] 10/30/2006 08:36:11 AM

good luck anon, i say if you want to go back, do it. its worth trying for, and hopefully there is more support nowadays then 10 years ago? i want to hope that for you.

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 10/30/2006 08:36:11 AM

Sunday, October 29, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/29/2006 07:22:32 PM

I am applying to grad programs again. I dropped out of phd program ten years ago. now I am looking to get into a new program. I had been abd. I must be insane. My application is due on wednesday, and I have not gotten my writing sample done. I feel like I am sabotaging myself (again).

I also feel like I cannot write anymore--my sentences are coming out like a first grader. Will I ever get back to where I was? Does it matter? my academic ambitions are what drive me and what is killing me.

Is this a secret? no, but I have many academic secrets lodged inside me. sexual/texual entanglements--bullshit happens. we talk about racism, sexism, but then some things are too humiliating (unfortunately common place as well), and we are silent about them. I dropped out and could not figure out why, but it was so obvious. It did not take me ten years to figure out why but it took me ten years to feel like I could return. should I talk about this honestly in my letter of application? that's a joke. I know better.....in any case, I am now

afraid I ruined my chances.

anyway, enough of the drama and back to my alleged writing sample submission.

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 10/29/2006 07:22:32 PM

Saturday, October 28, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/27/2006 09:00:36 PM

Yes! This drives me crazy. Like Anonymous, I address this with my students in a way that makes them feel (or at least this is my goal) that I'm leveling with them, letting them in on something: "You know, professors across the board really hate it when you start off an email with, 'hey.' It also drives us crazy when you don't capitalize or use proper punctuation or grammar in your emails." They usually laugh about it (along with me, as in "Why would someone do that?"), and I tell them that even though they laugh, I get too many emails like that. I do think that once I started bringing it up, the emails did get a little better. A friend of mine gives a whole lesson (well, I mean, I think it's probably 15 minutes, but she treats it like a regular grammar or writing lesson) on email etiquette.

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Posted by Poppy Red to academicsecret at 10/27/2006 09:00:36 PM

[academicsecret] 10/28/2006 11:13:14 PM

Thanks everyone. These are good points. I think devoting some time to this in the beginning of a course when you're discussing other specifics/norms/expectations is an excellent idea. I'll have to do this in the future.

There is a situation, however, that can't be addressed this way. I get contacted by undergrads who are not in my classes. (For example, students inquiring about future courses.) Do I just not bother with people when it's a one-time-only correspondance? I just feel like it's our job to educate students and prepare them for the rest of life and if they think they'll be able to land a job this way or address future colleagues and superiors this way, that's a problem.

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Posted by Turquoise Stuff to academicsecret at 10/28/2006 11:13:14 PM

Friday, October 27, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/27/2006 12:25:13 PM

i am cynical that these good ideas will be used, however. they really should though.

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 10/27/2006 12:25:13 PM

Thursday, October 26, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/26/2006 08:56:40 PM

I'm a grad student but I literally just talked to my students about this last week. I made it a joke, and told them that the professors and grad students laughed about how students addressed us as "hey" in emails. I think by laughingly embarrasing them (without shaming anyone) did the trick. I let them know that I understood that it may be their hesitance to use first names with a TA but assured them that we'd rather have them use our name than open an email that starts off "Hey". With professors I don't quite understand it since it is easy enough to say Dear Profesor So and So.

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 10/26/2006 08:56:40 PM

Wednesday, October 25, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/26/2006 06:50:12 AM

I think you should fight back by starting each email to students - and, in fact, each lecture/class session- with 'Dude.'

Ok, I'm just kidding.

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Posted by thistle to academicsecret at 10/26/2006 06:50:12 AM

[academicsecret] 10/25/2006 08:14:58 PM

I wish I'd get an apple instead of the sass I do get.

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Posted by Linda to academicsecret at 10/25/2006 08:14:58 PM

[academicsecret] 10/25/2006 05:40:27 PM

Ugh. This hits close to home because I'm trying to break my son (who's not yet in college) of this habit.

When a student addressed my sixth grade science teacher with "Hey," he'd say, "Hay is for horses." I will never, ever forget it. I don't know if you want to say that, but I promise your students won't forget it either.

If it's email and you'd like to be less direct you could just model how you'd like it addressed to you and sign it with your preferred title (this is what I did to combat the ever-present Miss/Mrs. Fraud).

In the future, or even now, you could clarfiy for your classes the best way to address a professor. In my freshman class especially I give clarifications like this often, usually under the guise of pointers on how to succeed in the next four years of college.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/25/2006 05:40:27 PM

[academicsecret] 10/25/2006 05:20:54 PM

"See i was tired cuz id been with a girl all night."

I usually do email, and should have. I had just come from reading the above paper and was a little emotionally charged. I definitely learned my lesson - a number of them, in fact.

Thanks, everyone. Now let's move on so my secret's not up there calling out my identity.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/25/2006 05:20:54 PM

Tuesday, October 24, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/25/2006 04:46:14 AM

What's the "causal internet speak"?

Regarding instructions before an exam, I try never to say anything substantive about anything but the upcoming exam. I just figure they can't pay attention to anything else. If I have something that I really need to tell everyone, I will email the class. Just a thought.

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Posted by Orange Ina to academicsecret at 10/25/2006 04:46:14 AM

[academicsecret] 10/24/2006 10:26:10 AM

I think I'll say something in the next class.

When I made the brief gripe about the lack of quality of the papers I'd received and the IM language it was in the few minutes before the students started an exam. I'm sure that being hyped up on nerves exacerbated any fuzziness and only one person thought to clarify as she was leaving (and I thought that surely she must be the only one to think that so made no effort to correct it via email).

In all honesty, the people who cared enough to try to write in the third person were still some of the best papers because they listened to what I said about these being real college papers.

I'm a big believer in grading for ideas, but the recent display is disgusting. I teach at a school that's supposed to be the cream of the crop and students are turning in papers that haven't been proofread, with simple mistakes and typos (I mean like typing las instead of last and lugged instead of luggage), not to mention the causal internet speak. As I address that, I'll address the IM/"I am" misunderstanding.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/24/2006 10:26:10 AM

Monday, October 23, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/24/2006 05:37:19 AM

This was a really funny read. But I do feel badly for those students who didn't get it. I wonder if they wondered, or if it was "clear" to them that you'd meant third person. And if it wasn't "clear" then what could you have done to get them to ask you.

So are you going to get back to this point in the next class and address it directly head on (maybe with some writing on the board:)?

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Posted by Turquoise Stuff to academicsecret at 10/24/2006 05:37:19 AM

[academicsecret] 10/23/2006 08:28:53 PM

Okay... it didn't end up being a ton of students, just a handful. It was pretty funny, though.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/23/2006 08:28:53 PM

[academicsecret] 10/23/2006 06:08:46 PM

You can and should ask a student to leave if the behavior is disruptive and interferring with the other students' learning. However, that's an extreme stance. I would prefer other more subtle approaches first--I find humor does work well. A big part of it is letting the students know that you are aware of their behavior.

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Posted by Delaney Kirk to academicsecret at 10/23/2006 06:08:46 PM

[academicsecret] 10/23/2006 04:24:43 PM

oh dear, poor students!
i can't stop laughing at this one...
and trying to think of what in the world they wrote for you.

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 10/23/2006 04:24:43 PM

[academicsecret] 10/23/2006 03:11:26 PM

Wait - I'm a little confused. So in an assignment about themselves, they wrote in the third person ("She is a freshman in college.")? Was that one of your instructions? And/or is that supposedly an aspect of a "well-written" or "formal" piece of prose? Did they get taught that in high school?

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Posted by jazzberry jam to academicsecret at 10/23/2006 03:11:26 PM

[academicsecret] 10/23/2006 08:27:39 AM

they don't use email here...
enough said.

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 10/23/2006 08:27:39 AM

Sunday, October 22, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/23/2006 03:11:03 AM

Sorry to hear all this, Strawberries. It sucks. Regarding the gatekeeping, any chance of sidestepping physical boundaries by sending the target person an email?

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Posted by Orange Ina to academicsecret at 10/23/2006 03:11:03 AM

[academicsecret] 10/23/2006 03:06:18 AM

Apologies for being late to this discussion. It's an interesting undertaking, Twilight, and I'll be curious how it works out long term.

As Thistle's note suggests and as I suspected, it may take tons more time to work things this way. That said, IF it makes it that much more valuable and enjoyable then it may well be worth it.

I don't have experience with this, but I'd be too concerned about the time ramifications to implement it, I'm afraid. Perhaps I'll do it later in my career.

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Posted by Orange Ina to academicsecret at 10/23/2006 03:06:18 AM

Saturday, October 21, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/21/2006 10:58:09 AM

i know that people are super busy, I in no way meant to make anyone feel guilty, just selfishly give myself something to procrastinate with! especially since others' secrets are so much more intersting than my own.

anon -- sorry about the stats sit. but hey, on the bright side it seems as though you are fooling them! you could always take another stats course on the sly... but as one who also hates stats and is not the best, that really sucks.

salmon -- come on, you have got to figure a way to share your secrets without sharing too much, i am dying to know now! maybe the friends' idea from T stuff?

and T-stuff, that is a brilliant idea. however, now that i've said its really about me, i will have to wait to use it next time. wait, darn, then you will know it really is about me and not my friend. hmm, well maybe i'll use it and maybe not. take that wannabe identity revealers!

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 10/21/2006 10:58:09 AM

Friday, October 20, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/21/2006 05:37:02 AM

Strawberries, I agree, way too long without secrets here! I guess we're all being yanked in a lot of directions. I know what you mean about having told people in your physical world about things that you then realize you can't really post here. Well, how about this? You post here as though you were telling a friend's story? After all, if you've talked to that many people about the issue already (by definition the source of the concern here) then why couldn't one of the friends post? That is, Strawberries is suddenly just a friend of Strawberries posting away. I hope that makes sense.:-)

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Posted by Turquoise Stuff to academicsecret at 10/21/2006 05:37:02 AM

[academicsecret] 10/21/2006 05:35:42 AM

I have a bunch of secrets I'm dying to blather here, but I don't know how without revealing myself completely. Considering my brother recognized me without even knowing that I blog, I'm already on very thin ice. Any suggestions as to how I can continue to blog here within the confines of trying to remain anonymous? As I said in my first post, I find it nearly impossible to write without revealing certain details about myself and my particular situation(s).

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 10/21/2006 05:35:42 AM

[academicsecret] 10/20/2006 10:59:54 PM

Anon 2:26: If you want to be part of the a.secret fold, e-mail me (address in sidebar) for the super-secret instructions.

All -- Sorry I haven't been participating much lately. I'm being yanked in many different directions.

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Posted by Clear to academicsecret at 10/20/2006 10:59:54 PM

[academicsecret] 10/20/2006 02:26:23 PM

I'm grading comprehensive exams this morning. I didn't ask to grade them. I was assigned to grade a question.

I am a researcher who uses primarily qualitative methods. There are two statistical tests that I have used and understand decently enough. So basically, here's my secret: Despite acing my stats classes when I was a student, I really don't understand stats at all.

Today that leads to another secret: I am grading exam questions that require me to in part look at student knowledge of stats. I was afraid to ask to be assigned another question because I don't want my fellow faculty members to know that I can't do this. They are so heavily biased toward quantitative research that I wonder why they even hired me, and they unfairly assume that my in-depth knowledge of qualitative research must just be an add-on to knowledge of quantitative.

Thankfully they do all seem to be aware that they do not have a clue about qualitative research.

I'd fess up, only I've heard them mention how critical it is that everyone understand statistics (and I'm not just talking about basic stats) again and again and again.

That felt good to get out. Maybe I need a blog.

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 10/20/2006 02:26:23 PM

[academicsecret] 10/20/2006 01:02:43 PM

I agree that it's been entiely too long without a secret around here!

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/20/2006 01:02:43 PM

Saturday, October 14, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/14/2006 11:59:18 PM

I was in academia for a while (through a postdoc), then I left. I'd been getting signals (from myself, from others) for a while that suggested that perhaps it wasn't the best choice for me; I ignored them for years. But I'm happier now than I was while in academia, and my current job is a much much better fit for my psyche.

Having said that, I don't think I was an awful match for academia; things didn't work out for me, but they would have worked out for people not too different from me, and I have no idea what your situation is like. So my point isn't to say that, if you're wondering, then you should get out.

What I will say is that academia is very good at putting people in a situation where they can't really imagine doing anything else, where their primary loyalty isn't to themselves, their families, or even their schools, but rather their discipline. I don't think that's healthy. So it's probably a good idea to spend time thinking about what's important to you, what really makes you happy (as opposed to what you wish made you happy), and what you'd do if you were to leave academia. It's hard to figure out that stuff, but it's even harder to move across the country, end up some place where you're unhappy, and try to figure out whether or not to leave academia while, say, in the middle of a high-pressure job search hundreds or thousands of miles away from your support network.

I wouldn't spend time worrying about your advisor's and committee's goodwill right now. Root causes are much more important.

I apologize for the doubtless depressing tone of this comment.

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Posted by david carlton to academicsecret at 10/14/2006 11:59:18 PM

[academicsecret] 10/14/2006 04:23:52 PM

I had a really great experience with co-teaching last year. I've been a TA a bunch of times before, but this time, my advisor treated it like co-teaching. It was a small graduate seminar. We would take turns prepping for class, then talk over the plans for class, which usually involved both of us leading at different times during the seminar. Then, after class, we would talk through the decisions we made (why did you skip that topic? why did you decide to open that up for discussion early?). I got to hear her thinking and decision-making processes while she was teaching, which was an amazing experience. We also had the students doing weekly memos, and we would each comment on the memos, and then read each others' comments before returning the memos to the students.

The whole thing was an incredible apprenticeship for me. I learned so much more than in a normal TA experience. But I think it was also fun for my advisor, because we got to engage in great conversations about the material before and after classes. I think she enjoyed being able to work over the readings with someone who was also experienced with the material, instead of limiting conversation to what was best for the students in the class.

The down side to all this bliss? It took like 3 times the amount of time it would have taken for her to teach the class alone.

I also took a class that my advisor co-taught with another professor that was a total disaster. The other professor was clearly unprepared and would hijack the class discussion and guest speakers for her own needs (she was writing a book on the topic). So I've seen co-teaching be great and I've also seen in be totally crappy.

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Posted by thistle to academicsecret at 10/14/2006 04:23:52 PM

[academicsecret] 10/14/2006 03:10:13 PM

fraud -- i often think that too! life would be so much better if i was a pessimist! of course i am way too optimistic to be a pessimist...too bad b/c it sure would have helped me prepare for this.

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 10/14/2006 03:10:13 PM

Thursday, October 12, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/13/2006 12:04:00 AM

Oops.. I meant a pessimist rather than an optimist. I'm taking that as a sign that I've graded entirely too much today!

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/13/2006 12:04:00 AM

[academicsecret] 10/12/2006 10:59:51 PM

the part that sucks the most was that i had such high hopes for this place.
I once had a boyfriend who believed that it was better to be an optimist than a pessimist. His reasoning? You might be pleasantly surprised, but you're never disappointed.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/12/2006 10:59:51 PM

[academicsecret] 10/12/2006 10:57:36 PM

I have no words (at least no words suitable for this forum).

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/12/2006 10:57:36 PM

[academicsecret] 10/12/2006 06:33:11 PM

WTF?!

What a complete idiot. "Or whatever they guessed it at????"

He is so @#$%^&*&^%$#.

That's all.

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 10/12/2006 06:33:11 PM

[academicsecret] 10/12/2006 06:30:30 PM

thanks, apricot.

thankfully, after a day of sleep and good food and happy people has made me forget until monday, when i go back of course.

the part that sucks the most was that i had such high hopes for this place.

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 10/12/2006 06:30:30 PM

Wednesday, October 11, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/11/2006 11:12:47 PM

Oh man, Strawberries, that SUCKS. The condescension, the weird incompetence of people that are suppose dto help, ugh.

Just keep reminding yourself: visiting means eventually, you get to leave!

But I feel for you. And, unfortuantely, I know exactly where you're coming from.

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Posted by Apricot to academicsecret at 10/11/2006 11:12:47 PM

[academicsecret] 10/11/2006 05:24:30 PM

I'm glad that it's behind you. :)

I have a love/hate relationship with email for this reason and many others.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/11/2006 05:24:30 PM

[academicsecret] 10/11/2006 03:19:53 PM

Thanks for all your great comments!
I'm having a slightly more productive week, so I'm feeling a bit better.
I do keep wondering if I really want to be here, but it's hard to tell under all the guilt about not being productive. I have no idea what I'd do outside of grad school, anyway.
It doesn't help that the people around me are mostly the "science as a vocation" type, either.
Now that I've started reading again, I am seeing a little bit of my enthusiasm reappear, I think. I guess I'll keep working on the baby steps and see if it stays around.

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Posted by Dandelion to academicsecret at 10/11/2006 03:19:53 PM

[academicsecret] 10/11/2006 03:06:48 PM

That must have been stressful. I'm glad it all worked out :)

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Posted by Dandelion to academicsecret at 10/11/2006 03:06:48 PM

[academicsecret] 10/11/2006 07:46:32 AM

Really sorry to hear this, thistle, it sucks. All I can recommend is seeking out alternatives to the main IT system. There are lots of free options out there now that should allow you to sidestep the system. Of course, assuming your advisor uses the same system, this may not really help overall.:-(

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Posted by Turquoise Stuff to academicsecret at 10/11/2006 07:46:32 AM

Tuesday, October 10, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/11/2006 03:32:25 AM

I had a tense exchange that was interrupted by my e-mail actually somehow vanishing into the ether without being received, which led to much awkward following confusion.

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Posted by Clear to academicsecret at 10/11/2006 03:32:25 AM

[academicsecret] 10/10/2006 02:06:06 PM

In my experience in both the commercial and scholarly worlds, English majors with no actual job experience make the worst editors because they are pretentious. They either want to impose stylistic affectations or arbitrary rules.

I once read a similar complaint from a laboratory director, that he never hired science students for detail work because they spent too much time musing about the theoretical implications.

--emerod

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 10/10/2006 02:06:06 PM

Monday, October 09, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/10/2006 12:36:49 AM

I agree whole-heartedly, Apricot and Thistle. I live with someone who believes that science is a vocation (in the sense of a calling). While I feel drawn to what I do and love it dearly, it is not my life and I can't let it be my life. I learned long ago to be okay with the fact that I am less productive academically than the person I love, and many around me. It's okay with me because I am not only an academic. I am a mother, and an individual, and I am going to enjoy my life and ensure that my child does too, and if that means that I have a shorter vita, so be it. I chose this path for the flexibility it offered and I'm not going to give that up for anyone.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/10/2006 12:36:49 AM

[academicsecret] 10/09/2006 11:13:12 PM

Awww, Thistle. Happy to help. Your comment actually says what I was coming back to say, so I'll just agree.

Academia's weird. It's one of those professions that becomes an identity. Like medical doctor, teacher, model, actor, senator. For some this is fine. But I've had to make the concerted decision that it's my job, not my identity. And sometimes, I'm going to straight-up suck at my job. And sometimes, I'm totally fine with that.

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Posted by Apricot to academicsecret at 10/09/2006 11:13:12 PM

Sunday, October 08, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/09/2006 05:40:37 AM

quoting Apricot:
Whenever I think my advisor's disappointed in me, I always think to myself, "You know, I'm a human being, and this is my life. I intend to enjoy my life. So, your opinion means a lot to me, Advisor, but if it's between feeling anguished because I'll never measure up to your standards, or hanging out with my family and being a normal person, it's really no contest. Sorry." Just my opinion...

First of all, thank you Apricot for that comment- I totally needed to hear that myself tonight.

Second of all, Dandelion, one way to think about your situation is not so much whether or not you should be in grad school but how you can do grad school 'your way'. Leaving grad school is a pretty big decision, and a lot of people seem to spend a lot of time and energy agonizing over it. Can you think of staying in grad school on your own terms? My terms include not trying to be 100% productive 24 hours a day, like my advisor wants me to think she is. Some of my friends have kids, and their terms inlcude spending quality and quantity time with the little ones. All I'm trying to say is that you have more options (and control) than just staying or leaving.

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Posted by thistle to academicsecret at 10/09/2006 05:40:37 AM

[academicsecret] 10/09/2006 01:04:43 AM

Following up on Fraud's note, it is absolutely true that staying or leaving academia has little to nothing to do with one's smarts. There are very very able and super smart people who've left academia.. and sometimes I wonder if it's precisely b/c they were smart enough to realize this was not for them.

It is important to approach the question as not one of failure or quitting, but one about what is it that you would enjoy doing? That's the key!

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Posted by Navy Blue Blob to academicsecret at 10/09/2006 01:04:43 AM

[academicsecret] 10/09/2006 12:49:11 AM

I really, really get annoyed with people who don't learn from their mistakes - or who are inept at taking note of criticism in the first place.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/09/2006 12:49:11 AM

[academicsecret] 10/08/2006 11:26:16 PM

I'm sorry that you're struggling through this, Dandelion. It's not easy to be in a position like your own, wondering where you belong.

That said, I think that grad school is all about either making it because you love it (because you're likely going to have to want to do this for the rest of your life) or deciding to drop out because it might not be for you.

Grad school not being for you is not an act of cowardess or a sign of failure. I could never work in sales because it's just not my style. Some of the smartest - and even most driven - people I knew didn't make it through grad school because they figured out that whatever they were pursuing wasn't their style and they let that be okay.

It all depends on how much longer you have - I mean you can be an overqualified salesperson - but if you're early in your program, and seriously thinking this might not be for you - there's no shame in moving on to something different.

Also, if you don't want to leave, I recommend use the (perceived/real) questioning of others to fuel your desire to prove them wrong! It's worked well for amny before you.

Just know that whatever you decide is okay.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/08/2006 11:26:16 PM

[academicsecret] 10/08/2006 07:34:10 PM

And Salmon, before you freak out and suggest that this must be how your adviser sees you, etc, from everything you have told us I can confidently say this has nothing to do with your situation.

Ha ha ha, I see that I'm developing a reputation.

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 10/08/2006 07:34:10 PM

[academicsecret] 10/08/2006 12:37:27 PM

Dear Dandelion
me here. I have been reading this blog for months now but this story grabbed my attention.

I think this is when SHADES OF GREY thinking needs to happen. One can achieve great things BREAK DOWN its ok achievements 'kept'Or as in my case enjoy GREAT ACHIEVEMENTS (my Research into a new area unwittingly would give qaulitative data to the Sociology of Religion PLANNED) without breaking down. As it is I have broken down (nice thing NO 1 now a good suggestion that needs SUPPORTED following up) and recent challenging assignment/s which have exposed brokenness and weakness to point of not coping (2 Academics in my life I dare to pray for them I dare to care and dare to get involved and find myself in Research land [I am in Supported Housing. am unemployed, chances of being where you are 1 in 20 or worse plus persistanct disadvantage, agesim, sexism, the life-affecting disadvantages just pile on] in Uk outside looking into Academia and Academic Secret is one of two sites i read regularly as to the woes and potential insane blessing of Academia) I also have family who are Academics on both sides so you could say the A*******profession is just slightly close to my heart.
Why not go to Chaplaincy for Prayer?? At my local Uni we have Confidential prayer support for Academics and Students ( the woes go both ways you know) and the Christians aim to work together for the cause of the Kingdom.
With every blessing and much love and hope that despite of this horrible depression things begin to work out for you
me aka The Boss.
nb try every other religion or not but God answers prayer and I have seen it too often to doubt it. And I am as academic as hell and am reading 31 book out of first 80 this year and now have a couple or Theories !!!!!

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Posted by The Boss to academicsecret at 10/08/2006 12:37:27 PM

[academicsecret] 10/08/2006 11:58:53 AM

dandelion,
i am sorry again that this is so hard. I forgot to repsond to the depression part. it takes awhile to get the motivation back, and sometimes, you fear/feel like its on you again. it is very hard to be in academia when you are depressed. and i echo orangina, are you seeing someone? and i agree with her advice. even if you're not as depressed as before, it doesn't mean it still isn't effecting you.

also, you may want to meet with a disability coordinator or academic counselor at your inst. to work out a managable plan of what you can and can't do, and try sticking to accomplishing small things at first instead of the big picture, which is always much scarier.

good luck and take care!

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 10/08/2006 11:58:53 AM

[academicsecret] 10/08/2006 10:34:21 AM

Wow, this sounds a lot like my story, although I'm much further down the track to dropping out than you are. I've just started the third year of what should be a four-year phd, but I feel like I haven't actually made any progress for a long time anyway.

I've been diagnosed with clinical depression, but I think that's caused in part by my refusal to admit that research (or at least, this phd) isn't for me. So the plan at this point is to leave the phd program, with my fiance, but leave the door open to taking it up again if the depression lifts and I decide that I want to make it work. So we'll see how I feel after a few months off and hopefully some therapy.

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Posted by cerulean to academicsecret at 10/08/2006 10:34:21 AM

Saturday, October 07, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/08/2006 05:58:27 AM

First, sorry to hear about all this.

Second, are you seeing a therapist? I think it's really important in grad school and hopefully your health care provides it. It is totally possible that some (all?) of this may be depression related and it's going to be hard for you to tackle that on your own. Even if it's not depression related, you may still well benefit from a professional outlet.

Third, when students disappoint, that doesn't always mean that they are not being productive at all. As I tried to point out in my last post, it's often about really trivial things like a prompt email reply (that doesn't require any reporting on anything deep, I'm seriously talking trivialities like when are you free next week?). So don't take the comments in that post too seriously upon yourself.

Fourth, when people start encouraging you to think about alternatives, they may be doing so because they truly believe from everything YOU have told them that grad school may not be the thing for you and they want to be supportive of that. So don't see it as a hint, necessarily.

So what to do? Think about whether you enjoy this life. If it's only what may be ahead that is keeping you going, that may not be enough. Do you look forward to coming up with research questions? Do you enjoy designing projects? Do you like the data collection/analysis/write-up (or insert appropriate types of work in your field)? Do you enjoy teaching and interacting with students? Do you enjoy aspects of academia? If the answers are mostly no then perhaps this isn't for you. But if the answers are yes then it may be too early to change track.

You haven't given us enough information about your situation to know the extent to which you may have already disappointed people. For example, if you're in your fifth year and still barely starting your dissertation, that may be a concern. But even then it's hard to know in the abstract without the types of specifics that a.secret doesn't really allow.

If you're really ready to make some changes, you may consider talking to your advisor about all that. However, I'd first start by making some actual changes. IF you have a history of promising things in the past and not following up on them ( and by "history" I mean at least 3-4 times) then simply having a meeting about your desire to make things better may not be convincing. However, if you really do start to make some changes and then ask to talk to your advisor to see what suggestions s/he has for you to continue improving the situation, that could be helpful.

Again, we don't know enough details about your situation here to consider all the factors involved so be sure not to take some of these comments too seriously. They may not really apply.

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Posted by Orange Ina to academicsecret at 10/08/2006 05:58:27 AM

[academicsecret] 10/08/2006 04:34:26 AM

Thanks for the encouragement.

Apricot, I think you're being too kind, though. Your attitude sounds great, but I'm not feeling bad for merely being good. At the moment, mediocre is something to aspire to.

I guess I'm wondering how reversible my situation is. Have I already lost any goodwill my advisor and committee might have towards me, thanks to my current disorganised, incompetent state?

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Posted by Dandelion to academicsecret at 10/08/2006 04:34:26 AM

[academicsecret] 10/08/2006 03:38:14 AM

Strawberries speaks the truth. In my experience, the most successful people in academia aren't the smartest, the craftiest, the hardest working, the nicest, the coolest, the funnest... the anything-est. Grad school unfortunately sets up a situation where the opinions of other people matter a lot more than they should. Our advisors, our colleagues, family. Sometimes it seems like the only opinion that doesn't matter is our own.

But here's what I think: You should be doing what you really want to do, period. There is no shame in being "good." We don't always have to be great in every moment.

Whenever I think my advisor's disappointed in me, I always think to myself, "You know, I'm a human being, and this is my life. I intend to enjoy my life. So, your opinion means a lot to me, Advisor, but if it's between feeling anguished because I'll never measure up to your standards, or hanging out with my family and being a normal person, it's really no contest. Sorry." Just my opinion...

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Posted by Apricot to academicsecret at 10/08/2006 03:38:14 AM

[academicsecret] 10/07/2006 08:13:02 PM

no worries, dandelion! it all depends on you. grad school is hard and it sucks sometimes. sometimes a lot of the times. but if its where you want to be, and what you want to do, you can do it. and you can try to change the things that you feel you are not doing as you'd like. in the same vein, if you are in grad school but you don't want to be there, there is no reason to torture yourself if you don't have to. so don't listen to what others are saying, listen to what you are saying, to what you want to do. good luck!

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 10/07/2006 08:13:02 PM

[academicsecret] 10/07/2006 06:12:48 PM

No disclaimer for me, though. That is probably how my advisor sees me.

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Posted by Dandelion to academicsecret at 10/07/2006 06:12:48 PM

[academicsecret] 10/07/2006 05:31:59 PM

Having read way too many grad school application files in my life, I can say that grades and scores are just one measure among many. For example, someone could have super grades from a super school and super scores, but write an essay that does a poor job of linking the applicant's interests with the focus of the program and the applicant may well not be admitted. It's a matching process on numerous dimensions.

Conscienscious admin committee members try to read through all files beyond glancing at the grades and scores. That said, someone from a school we have never heard of with mediocre grades and bad scores is definitely going to have a hard time getting too much of our attention. With hundreds of files to go through, choices need to be made.

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Posted by Orange Ina to academicsecret at 10/07/2006 05:31:59 PM

Friday, October 06, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/06/2006 06:06:55 PM

Thanks for the clarification, strawberries and turquoise stuff. I was actually careful to make sure that I had one letter of recommendation by an American, more because I suspected that there might be a standard form for such things than because I considered (at the time) that norms of praise would be different. Now I know better, I'm even happier I thought of it.

The lack of commensurability between US and UK grading goes beyond different numbering schemes: when I did my undergrad degree, you took a degree in one subject and were given a single result based on your performance in that subject - there was no equivalent to the course-load, GPA or what have you. It's such a fundamental difference that it can be hard to wrap one's mind around it. No majors, no minors, just the subject chosen at the time of application to university. Further, the possible grades were pass, fail or distinction; not a very clear metric in numerical terms. Perhaps strangest of all, I later found out that the professors who approved my application here in the US never tried to draw a clear parallel - they didn't know abot any of these differences...

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Posted by Anonymous to academicsecret at 10/06/2006 06:06:55 PM

[academicsecret] 10/06/2006 05:56:41 PM

thanks, plaid!

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 10/06/2006 05:56:41 PM

[academicsecret] 10/06/2006 11:46:05 AM

I didn't see it yesterday afternoon either, Plaid. I'm glad it's working again!

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/06/2006 11:46:05 AM

[academicsecret] 10/06/2006 11:30:22 AM

Hmmm.. maybe it was something at my end. Sorry about that. I'm glad to know you still saw it. I got very confused.

(Strawberries, what a great icon!)

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Posted by Plaid to academicsecret at 10/06/2006 11:30:22 AM

[academicsecret] 10/06/2006 08:17:36 AM

i still see it....
is it a mirage?

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Posted by strawberries to academicsecret at 10/06/2006 08:17:36 AM

Thursday, October 05, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/06/2006 06:08:53 AM

Huh?

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 10/06/2006 06:08:53 AM

[academicsecret] 10/05/2006 06:11:02 PM

Just yesterday afternoon in lab I was talking to a student who is struggling a little bit. Among other things, she struggles with correct spelling, since English is not her first language. Then she told me that it doesn't really matter how well she does in the course because "My major is English." Ha ha! I immediately thought of the conversation here about English majors being the only people qualified to be editors.

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 10/05/2006 06:11:02 PM

Wednesday, October 04, 2006

[academicsecret] 10/05/2006 05:00:14 AM

My experience with "what is your degree" talk usually ends with a comment that since I was a science major, I must not be a "people person" as opposed to the other person who was a "communications" major or some such. How judgemental and prejudiced this sounds! I am glad you got your comment in.

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Posted by Fitz to academicsecret at 10/05/2006 05:00:14 AM

[academicsecret] 10/04/2006 09:26:28 PM

I have encountered all these same types of problems as a young female, but with a twist. I am a graduate assistant instructor (with an M.A. but not yet a Ph.D.) and I frequently have students call me Kristen, Professor E., Dr. E., and Mrs. E. These last three, I must add, are not correct. I am not a professor, I do not have my doctorate, and I am not married. The only one that really annoys me is when they assume that anyone old enough to teach their own college course must be married. I have nothing against marriage, and hope to be married one day, but I see this assumption as a sexist understanding of how the world works (or as an implicit critique of unmarried, professional women). I should add that I get this from male and female students alike. Only rarely do people call me Miss E., which is how I introduced myself on the first day of class. So, interestingly, in some ways I have the opposite problem...people want to call me Professor or Doctor even when I don't deserve the title. I must be teaching in upside-down land.

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Posted by Kristen to academicsecret at 10/04/2006 09:26:28 PM

[academicsecret] 10/04/2006 07:13:03 PM

Most of my friends with degrees in English have horrible grammar.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/04/2006 07:13:03 PM

[academicsecret] 10/04/2006 06:59:44 PM

Any particular look on her face at that point?:)

Actually, the snarkiness bounced right off her. Her face lit up and she said, "OH, so you DO understand all of this!" (Meanwhile, I'm thinking to myself, "Yeah, because I managed to pass fifth grade math!")

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 10/04/2006 06:59:44 PM

[academicsecret] 10/04/2006 06:52:50 PM

My favorite one is the claim that having an English degree qualifies someone to be an editor.

ME TOO! I think that's actually my #1 pet peeve as far as equating degrees with knowledge goes. I see so many job announcements for editors that REQUIRE a degree in English, which annoys me because I think I could do the jobs just as well as any English major, but since I've never even taken a college-level English course, I am not at all qualified. It's not as if English majors are the only students required to write using proper grammar.

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Posted by Salmon Ella to academicsecret at 10/04/2006 06:52:50 PM

[academicsecret] 10/04/2006 06:02:04 PM

From Wikipedia:

Popularly, the fruit has been identified as an apple (perhaps as a Latin pun of 'malus' sounding like 'evil' and 'apple'), although the Bible does not identify the fruit as an apple. Judaism teaches that the fruit may have been either grape, fig, wheat, or citron. In recent years, some researchers are supporting the fact that the forbidden fruit is actually a pomegranate, from the supposed location of the Garden of Eden.

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Posted by fraud, in denim to academicsecret at 10/04/2006 06:02:04 PM

[academicsecret] 10/04/2006 05:42:30 PM

Fraud, that's it?! You're not going to tell us what the fruit was? C'mon!

Salmon, way to derail the conversation!

Well, since I was a history major, I can help you here:
one source, another source.

PS. I wasn't a history major. I used the internets to help me figure it out. Good question.

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Posted by Navy Blue Blob to academicsecret at 10/04/2006 05:42:30 PM

[academicsecret] 10/04/2006 05:37:46 PM

That was a very funny video, thank you for posting the link! And I agree with Thistle, I think I like it better than the original.

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Posted by Navy Blue Blob to academicsecret at 10/04/2006 05:37:46 PM